Posts by FatFreek 2005

16

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES A MONGERAL RELIGION....

by Quentin in

there are at least two major religious movements contained within the wtbts, as shown below.

probably evangelical as well.

seems the pastor reached his hand into anything and everything he could, terry and others have made a very good case for russell's cherry picking.

FatFreek 2005

The following are, I believe, relevant exerpts from wikipedia, its article on "History of the Seventh-day Adventist Church". It shows that several of what we know as Watchtower leanings were not unique, originated by Russell, but were borrowed from other religions.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church had its roots in the Millerite movement of the 1830s and 1840s, during the period of the Second Great Awakening, and was officially founded in 1863. Prominent figures in the early church included Hiram Edson, James Springer White and his wife Ellen G. White, Joseph Bates, and J. N. Andrews. Over the ensuing decades the church expanded from its original base in New England to become an international organization. Significant developments in the 20th century led to its recognition as a Christian denomination.

You can see that being founded in 1863, this group preceded the movement by C.T. Russell. Note also the similarities in how they (and other well known contemporary churches) felt about "church traditions" and how the Watchtower felt about them. Clearly, Russell "borrowed" these feelings, then adopted them.

Adventists viewed themselves as heirs of earlier outcast believers such as the Waldenses, Protestant Reformers including the Anabaptists, English and Scottish Puritans, evangelicals of the 18th century including Methodists, Seventh Day Baptists, and others who rejected established church traditions.

Len

ps: Oh, we must never forget Russell's ties and allegiance to William Miller in the early pages of Zion's Watchtower. He called him what I would describe as an elevated title, "Father Miller" no less than 4 times in those early issues despite the failure of his 1840's prediction. Russell still believed in the merit of his basic premise of Christ's return (changed to presence).

4

Harold Camping: I meant October 21 -- May 21 was SPIRITUAL judgement day

by FatFreek 2005 in

ya'll need to cut harold camping some slack on his apparent failure at his may 21 prediction.

to use a patent watchtower alibi, "he never used the special words, "jehovah said".

besides, harold obviously had some new light since and has altered his prediction by adding 5 months to the original.. harold camping "... said that instead of the biblical rapture in which believers were expected to ascend into heaven, a spiritual judgement day occurred on may 21 instead.

FatFreek 2005

Ya'll need to cut Harold Camping some slack on his apparent failure at his May 21 prediction. To use a patent Watchtower alibi, "He never used the special words, "Jehovah said". Besides, Harold obviously had some New Light since and has altered his prediction by adding 5 months to the original.

Harold Camping "... said that instead of the biblical rapture in which believers were expected to ascend into heaven, a spiritual judgement day occurred on May 21 instead. He said that the rapture would transpire on October 21, at which time the world would be ..."

When asked why he chose the term spiritual instead of invisible, he replied, "Cuz Watchtower copyrighted Invisible many years ago."

Len

ps: This is the Jokes and Humour section

4

My favorite animal

by JeffT in

my favorite animal.

she said i wasn't funny, but she couldn't have been right, because everyone else in the class laughed.. my parents told me to always be truthful and honest, and i am.

i told my dad what happened, and he said my teacher was probably a member of peta.. he said they love animals very much.. i do, too.

FatFreek 2005

That is a good one.

I got that one, nearly word for word, in a email about a year ago. You and that author must be on the same wave length.

9

Who wants to help put together the ultimate Watchtower Index Wiki?

by pirata in

presenting: wtindex.info.

there are a great deal of watchtower publication references available on a number of sites, and on this forum, but it takes a lot of searching, digging, and reading to find them.. i have put together a wiki that currently catalogs:.

1) subject references for watchtower publications (from 1800s to present), in an organized and clear way.. 2) the sources of quotations (with context) used in watchtower publications.

FatFreek 2005

I just browsed briefly and like the way you've organized things so far. You'll probably get some naysayers claiming its redundancy as respects other sites but that goes with the territory you're entering.

It sounds like a huge task but if you've got the vim and vigor, I say go for it. We need as many ways to enlighten as possible.

Len

114

StandFirm Says The Watchtower Society Has Never Lied!

by LostGeneration in

check it out:.

http://stayawake-standfirm.blogspot.com/2011/04/watchtower-society-has-never-lied.html.

standfirms disclaimer is that the definition of a lie is: "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive"-emphasis added.. of course, other definitions of lie include: .

FatFreek 2005

Here's a classic lie from Watchtower.

At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case. *** Watchtower, 1981 12/1 p. 27 par. 2 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***

However, Watchtower said in: 1879 -- Sodomites will be resurrected. This became a "previous point of view". 1952 -- Sodomites will not be resurrected. This became a "previous point of view". 1965 -- Sodomites will be resurrected. This became a "previous point of view". 1988 -- Sodomites will not be resurrected. This became a "previous point of view". 1988 -- Sodomites will be resurrected. This became a "previous point of view". 1989 -- Sodomites will not be resurrected.

When a doctrinal teaching goes from a YES to a NO -- that cannot, by any stretch of logic, be considered an adjustment. A dimmer switch could be considered an adjustment of light. This teaching, however, is like a strobe light -- it's been either OFF or ON. In this single doctrinal teaching, the Watchtower has blatantly contradicted itself 5 times over. They have done what they have said they haven't done. That makes them a liar 5 times over -- and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Len

4

Novel approach in the latest km posted by Fokyc

by therevealer in

2 by preaching: jesus used his time, energy,.

and resources to make the light of truth.

known to people in their homes, in public.

FatFreek 2005

Except when shunning people who believed differently

Carla, you must understand(ps) that when talking to people at the door, they attempt to convince them to believe differently. When they finally do that, becoming a JW, that's perfectly acceptable. From thenceforth, however, they are prohibited from believing differently as that is no longer perfectly acceptable.

There's something horribly wrong with this picture.

Len

ps: I know YOU understand all this but lurkers may not understand this.

15

WATCHTOWER IMAGES

by Quentin in

use any of these images anyway you whish, you may modify or change them as well.......quentin..... .

.

FatFreek 2005

Hi Quentin,

Very good graphic editing work. I thought you were just an AutoCAD (vector graphics) guy (we met at that Dallas fest a few years ago) but these raster illustrations are impressive. Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro -- ? Whichever, either still takes a great amount of skill. Your subject matter takes a great amount of passion and we're glad you're sharing it.

Len

119

No Forthcoming Photos :-(

by snowbird in

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42900991/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/?gt1=43001.

ah, well .... "to one who has faith, no explanation is necessary.

to one without faith, no explanation is possible.".

FatFreek 2005

This is the same one I got by email moments ago. Can't authenticate it, of course, but I might say it doesn't look like a man who is seeing his 72 virgins for the first time.

REMOVED PICTURE

Len

42

wt 7/1/11: Darwin a racist

by ParadiseCircus in

.

FatFreek 2005

The following is from Freeminds.org. It indicates that far after (35-45 years) Darwin's death in 1882, racism within Watchtower writings were not exactly what they'd now like to admit.

The subject of race is not a topic the Watchtower has spent an enormous amount of time discussing. Nonetheless, a large number of official statements in their publications clearly reflect their racist attitudes. For example, an October 15, 1919, Golden Age article about prohibition (p. 44) stated, "from a criminal viewpoint the desirability of sobering the southern negro speaks volumes for national prohibition." Another article refers to Orientals as "coolies" who were "cutthroats and murderers" (Golden Age, March 10, 1926, p. 374). Many articles, though, are much more direct. One states that the British Empire nations are all ruled by Whites, whom the Watchtower describes as having "superior mental, moral, or physical force" and that this superiority is disappearing because the "powers of the colored races are expanding" (May 5, 1926:483). A Golden Agearticle vehemently condemned a book sympathetic to blacks, Uncle Tom's Cabin, which it called "the work of Satan" and they even once stated that the Spaniards were a "backward" race (Bolling, 1927:141). The racism is also obvious in statements such as "careful observations in a London school showed that children enjoyed the heartiest laughs, not from slapstick comedies, but from [such activities as] ... watching a negro miner enjoying a square meal" (Golden Age, 1928:684).

18

Watchtower published the SAME EVENT TWICE...wrong both times!!

by Terry in

1873 [six thousand years of man's existence ends in a.d. 1873] {wr apr 1880 88}.

1873 "here we furnish the evidence that from the creation of adam to a.d. 1873 was six thousand years.

and though the bible contains no direct statement that the seventh thousand will be the epoch of christ's reign, the great sabbath day of restitution to the world, yet the venerable tradition is not without reasonable foundation.. if, then, the seventh thousand-year period of earth's history be an epoch specially noted as the period of christ's reign, we shall, by showing that it began in a.d. 1873, be proving that we are already in it.

FatFreek 2005

That looks very interesting, Terry. But please help us out on some of those acronyms. Yes, WT (Watchtower) is obvious but TIAH, WR, PRTM, and TMYF are not known -- at least, to me, and perhaps others.

Len